Starting work before 10am isn’t just soul crushing, this scientist says it’s equivalent to torture September 21, 2015vessel44 Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Stumble This RedditBY: TYLER FYFE It’s 9 am and under the the cheap hue of white fluorescent light, a daily workforce of cataleptic creatures crane their necks over an excel spreadsheet. According to Dr. Paul Kelley of Oxford University, this is what society’s most prevalent form of torture looks like. Dr. Kelley and a research team at the Sleep and Circadian Institute have confirmed something that has crossed everyone’s mind as they watched someone helplessly nod off on early morning public transit—a 9 am start is just fucking inhumane. This is because the human body runs on a biological timers. They’re called circadian rhythms and they are genetically preprogrammed cycles that regulate human energy levels, brainwave activity and hormone production. As Dr. Paul Kelley puts it in an interview, ‘We cannot change our 24-hour rhythms. You cannot learn to get up at a certain time…your liver and your heart have different patterns and you’re asking them to shift two or three hours.” This is because the natural human rhythms evolved around sunlight—not the business strategies of the nation’s employers. In the late 18th century, the 8-hour work day was designed to maximize efficiency. But factory owners didn’t consider the body’s natural clock, they only thought about a 24/7 production schedule. And though it might have appeared to maximize numbingly repetitive factory work, with the rise of technology and increasing number of jobs where you actually have to think, the 9am start time is completely backfiring. As Kelley told the British Science Festival in Bradford, “We’ve got a sleep deprived society.” His prescription was to move start times forward to 10am and to test his theory he moved the start time of a British school forward from 8:30am to 10:00am. He wasn’t surprised when he saw grades improve by an average 19 per cent. Companies who are forcing workers to start earlier than 10am are placing major stress on the emotional and physical systems of their employees and effectively contributing to long-term health problems and higher numbers of sick days. The societal prevalence of sleep deprivation is probably the reason why the average American consumes 3.1 nine-ounce cups of coffee a day. That’s 40 billion dollars a year spent annually by Americans to prevent drool from dripping onto their keyboard. As Kelley puts it, “This is an international issue. Everybody is suffering and they don’t have to.” Sources: deviantart.net, huffingtonpost.com, guim.co.uk Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Stumble This Reddit LIKE THE PLAID ZEBRA ON FACEBOOK PDuff That’s why I don’t even wake up til the crack of 10am! Helps to work from home… gregoryabutler Most people have to be at work at 7AM We do it and don’t whine about it aspath “Most people do it this way.” – Good way to change the world. Imagine if we kept on doing things the way “most people did” hundreds of years ago. Sparks13 So you’re drones. That doesn’t mean it’s healthy or productive. One hundred years ago, you would have thought child labor and 12 hr/7 days a week were a ‘we do it and don’t whine about it’ thing. Thank goodness drones can’t stand in the way of progress. Edohiguma Which wasn’t in effect 100 years ago, but thanks for the idiotic hyperbole I guess. Fact is, many professions have to start earlier than 10 am. Fact is, some professions are staffed 24/7. Get over it or get out of life. B2theG It wasn’t that long ago that I was working 12/hr days 7 days a week(sometimes without a break) and didn’t complain. After 2 weeks my boss told me I had to take a day off or else I would be fired. I loved it because the more hours I worked, the more money I made. I would have loved it even more if I actually got paid overtime. Charles Lucas I have worked 80+ hr weeks , with 36hr shifts every 4 days, for over 5 years. That does NOT mean it’s healthy , productive or admirable. Thankfully I was doing it for more important reasons than money! Unfortunately the system is designed to treat people like robots rather than the amazing creatures God created. Simon Osen Putting in 15 hours of work is much more than putting in 5 + 8, or 6 + 7. People who dont demand overtime are 1) selling themselves short if they are actually putting out 100% over 15 hours 2) hurting other people who recognize the extra effort of long shifts gregoryabutler Far from a “drone”, son I’m an interior systems carpenter – I build offices for a living (if you work in New York City, there’s a good chance that I installed your desk). We get up early, go to work early, go home in the early afternoon and we love it James Jarrait Being part of the “most people” I don’t whine about it because I don’t feel the need to deal with people like you. However yea, it’s a pain in my ass to be sure. Simon Osen However after showing your contempt for complaining, you agreed. People who point out fallacies benefit you as well. People who stay silent in the face of a problem are choosing to opt out of contributing to the organization of the task. They think they are showing solidarity perhaps with other workers by not adding to dissent, when its the needs and preconceptions of the employer they are meeting. gregoryabutler So it’s a “pain in the ass” to get up early? You must be a very lazy person Jamie Goodman Even when I work a 15-hour day (11am – 2am), and crank out some serious work in that time-frame, I am still called “lazy” because I don’t get up early. Just because I’m not like you, does that by rote make me lazy? gregoryabutler Yeah, it does aravis77 ‘Most people’ do not have to be at work at 7am. There’s a reason that the common shorthand for day jobs is ‘9 to 5.’ gregoryabutler You must know different people than I do. Maybe everybody you know is white collar – for blue collar workers, cops, firefighters and sanitation workers, day shift starts at 7 AM You need to broaden your social circle Nick Oh I whine. I’m at work at 7, but it’s inefficient and bad work practice, but hey, nobody really cares about that. gregoryabutler Why is it bad work practice to start work at dawn? We’ve been doing that in construction for generations and the buildings go up just fine. Nick Well according the study we’re specifically talking about in this article right now, it’s shows why it’s bad. So the buildings would go up finer if you started later in the day gregoryabutler Sorry, bullshit – I’ll take 500 years of construction industry practice over one lazy scholar’s dubious study Nick Then you’re wrong. Science thus far has a track record of Everything – 0. But you serve as an important lesson to others, anytime someone recommends taking anecdotes or “common sense” over scientific study, they’re trying to sell something to you. http://www.derekandcarrie.com/ Derek C. Olsen That’s the problem. gregoryabutler Why is that a problem? Get up early, go to work, finish work at 2 and have the whole afternoon to yourself fhunter And feel like a zombie. To come to work at 6am (add 1hour of travel time to work and at least 30minutes for breakfast/waking up/dressing, etc.). So waking time is 4am and bed time to get enough sleep is 8pm or earlier. gregoryabutler I’ve worked that schedule for 25 years and I feel just fine If you feel like a “zombie”, that sounds like a personal problem – just turn off the smartphone, go to bed and get up early, like a responsible adult Jamie Goodman Some of us our brains just don’t work in the morning, no matter how much we try, and are more productive later in the day. I can start work at 11am and work until past midnight with no complaints (computer work, professional for 20 years now) and can crank out some excellent work in that time period (way better than if I am forced to work in the morning). But I am still called lazy because I don’t get up at the crack of dawn. It’s an early-riser’s world, but I think there needs to be some understanding that not everyone functions perfectly in the 9-5 (or earlier) realm. No matter how hard we are forced to try. gregoryabutler Sounds like a personal problem – most adults can adjust to whatever work hours we need to. Mark Pemburn True, we do have a sleep deprived society, but if you, as a member of society, are _not_ sleep deprived, this reasoning goes out the window. Also, if this study, like the vast majority of studies, was conducted using college undergrads, that skews the equation considerably, given the different sleep patterns typical of youth. Hogwash to it all, I say! I do work for which I _actually have to think_ (software development), and I _love_ starting at 7:00 AM! Then again, I’m in my 60’s… James Jarrait I would think it’s more dependent on the individual. Even though I was inclined to agree because of my own feelings on the matter. I still feel that it’s based on the individuals. Perhaps going to sleep earlier would probably do these people some favors. I mean the massive difference I feel between sleeping at 10:00 exactly (by laying down at least by 9:30) vs sleeping at any time later is immense. However I miss out on socialite styled events and have ended up being more of a loner than anything. Granted I feel good when I go to work so I find it worth it, however my main complaint is the lack of a social life and I find myself wondering if i’ll end up being some forty year old virgin because I can’t find the time to engage with women. gregoryabutler Find a woman who’s an early riser – try jogging in the morning on the weekends bananaboat I cannot maintain a routine that requires me to go (and stay) asleep before 11pm. My natural rhythm has always been to sleep soundly from 1am-9am. Any schedule outside of that is so difficult for me (especially in the winter) that I end up getting disciplined for being late at a lot of jobs. I can successfully come in earlier for a few weeks, maybe a couple months at a time, but eventually I revert back to my natural rhythm. James Jarrait That’s very interesting. I have found that I have no particular rhythm I need to follow the majority of the time. Being that I now have to be up as early as 2am to get to work I am very much glad that is not the case. However I myself find a correlation between what time I sleep and how many hours required to wake up full of energy which also can be affected by the state of my mind, too much anxiety gives me shitty sleep if I can even fall asleep. Too much anxiety also caused me to have broken sleep. Thankfully I discovered meditation which has seemed to help my anxiety. Thankfully it’s relatively simple for me and if that’s really the case for you I empathize but I would still encourage you to try and experiment with your sleep habits a little. detdre I’m at work 5am, every weekday… That’s just the way it is. We’d all love to roll in at 10am, but when you work 10 hours a day, I’d rather go in that much earlier… Phred Malarkey. I could tell a tale from my own experience but I don’t have to. Others reading this story who have similar lifestyles will know for themselves whether it strikes a chord or not. Jonas Planck Apostate! INFIDEL DEFILER! The way of Bob is the way of slack, and all who deny this shall BURN come X-day! Phred Actually, I didn’t read the article, I needed more slack. Jicky Jones This is for the nite owls. I pass out by 9:30 every night. Sparks13 Well that’s what happens when you’re body is exhausted by being forced out of it’s natural rhythms. Mikael Evangale I’ve been actually trying to switch my schedule to the early morning shift because that’s when I am the most active and when my body wants to be awake. My natural rhythm is to wake up around 5am and 6am. bananaboat Different people have different rhythms. The most common is centered around sun up and sundown. Some people have rhythms that are naturally shifted a few hours before or after this, some have shorter and longer rhythms. One size does not fit all humans in nearly any case (except maybe in the case of those little stretchy knit gloves). wendy chappell i would hate to start my work day as late as 10am. the sun is up hours before this, that’s the cue to get out of bed. folks stay up way past sunset, maybe that’s the issue Resist_Tyranny I have naturally followed this advice all along:) …but I work for myself:) Edohiguma My day shift starts at 7 am, and I have 12 hour work days. I’m usually out the door by 5:45. Public transportation workers, bakers, etc, they start even earlier than that. Some professions require staff 24/7, which throws this guy’s whine out the window. This guy’s another theorist with no clue about reality. Yersinia pestis Was there anything about the health effects of work scheduling in your post? If there was, I missed it. gregoryabutler My day shift starts at 7 and ends at 2:15 – get up early, go to work and get out in mid afternoon before rush hour. Where I live we have 24 hour public transit and of course our police, firefighters and hospital workers work around the clock. Farmers and factory workers also start at dawn and work til mid day – truck drivers start work at 5 AM to beat the traffic The “researcher” is a privileged man who’s never had to work a blue collar or service job – he expects the peons to get to work early, so he can stay up late and sleep til mid day He needs to grow up Rich Duff Lipari Why is everybody ignoring the science behind this. The author isn’t over entitled trying to promote laziness he’s saying this mindset isn’t good for the body. Even thought your ok with it your body isn’t. This doesn’t have to be the way Radek Piskorski If you want to be very strict and not very serious, you could probably conclude that working at all is detrimental to your health. gregoryabutler What “science”? I’d like to see some actual research – not just some guy’s half baked opinions (which is what this article consists of) diulaylomo I work at 10, i still feel like crap every morning.. it all comes down to the work environment. im sure nobody is crying at google. Kyle Posey Good luck trying to convince the dinosaurs that think wasting your life away for a soulless corporation is some sort of virtue to admire. Melissa Gomez I’m a school bus driver. I start work at 6:30am. I guess that makes me double tortured. Kimberly Hall Triple tortured.. You get to deal with kids that are also being tortured! Cheydra Me too! Shahzad… feel sorry for you and kids…..All the best… mambocat No one is saying they do not want to work. No one is endorsing laziness, or endorsing working LESS than an eight hour shift. The article only states that the time work STARTS can have an adverse effect on people. The objections to this notion come from folks who seem to suffer from the delusion that getting up and getting started at sunup is somehow more “virtuous” than starting the day later. This article is about the health effects of WHEN you work, not the time-worn Protestant work ethic of getting up with the chickens. My family raised us to wake up early for no particular reason on the WEEKENDS, just because it was decreed “lazy” not to do so. Ridiculous. Can’t even catch a break when there isn’t anything demanding to do. Marcy Whipkins Well actually, 8 hours per day 5 days a week with only 2-3 weeks vacation per year IS too much time spent slaving for someone else. Productivity would probably double if we went to a 6 hour work day and more like 4-6 weeks vacation per year. In fact I think this model is practiced in some European businesses with magnificent results. Our lives are not meant to be gifts of servitude to corporate masters. Penny Says our rhythms are set to the time the sun is up so shouldn’t we be wanting to go in earlier than 10 am. The sun comes up way before then at my house. I personally like the idea as I am not a morning person but the argument doesn’t hold. Everyone is different in what they need. bananaboat When you wake up and when you start work, unless you literally live in your cubicle, will most likely be a couple hours apart. MaryBeth Pearson Wow…so many people ignorant of History! Most people were up at the crack of dawn. They didn’t complain, or say, “oh poor me!” It was what it was. If you train your body, it will go to bed at a certain time and get up at a certain time. It will deal. Scientists are not infallible. They once said the Earth was flat. What about mothers? Do we get to stay in bed until 10? Hahahahahahahha, pardon while we all fall over laughing. This only benefits single or married men with stay at home mom’s. Working mothers and stay at home moms must work work work! It is what it is. Quit complaining and you will find your body adjusts quite well. Pardon, I am still laughing at the thought of lounging in bed like an Empress while my daughter yells from her room. Hahahahahhahahahahahaha. Laylla And the all died at 40. Yersinia pestis Wow…so many people ignorant of History! … Scientists are not infallible. They once said the Earth was flat. Not only has the shape of the Earth long been well known to scientists, or anyone observing the hull of a ship disappearing over the horizon before the mast, the Greek scholar Eratosthenes worked out the Earth’s diameter to within a few percent of its true value in the 3rd century BCE. Ironically, the one ignorant of history here is … you. MaryBeth Pearson So the Medieval ages never happened. Got it. You assume a lot about me. How tolerant! Good job judging someone you know nothing about! My Bachelor’s in History proves you wrong. Whatever. “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. ” Elenor Roosevelt lumpkins Yes, your BA included information that was wrong, or didn’t include correct information. That happens. Information is relinquished as obsolete. People who insist that they are correct in the face of discomfirming evidence are quacks. MaryBeth Pearson Whatever you say. You know me better than I know myself! You must be a deity! Good for you! Hahahaha…..oh…people….. I am out. Continue to rail ya’ll, it is amusing. Yersinia pestis I don’t know you better than you know yourself but I do know that this claim of yours about medieval scientists claiming the Earth is flat is false. No one with much learning, in the West at least, has believed that the Earth is flat since long before the medieval period. MaryBeth Pearson Well look at that. I was wrong. Sorry about that Deity. I know you have never been wrong before, so this mere mortal does apologize. I am in good company with many, though. Many intelligent people have made mistakes through the years. No need to warn people about my college. I have been out of it for almost 10 years, and this mortal brain has been known to be wrong. On the the flat earth thing, I was wrong. However, though my example was wrong, my point about scientists being failable is still vaild. They have ascribed to many things that later were proven false. That was my whole point, I just chose a poor example. Can you honestly say that every single scholar and scientist have had accurate theories? Nope. Ok, I really am done. I made a mistake, in case you needed to hear that again. I hope someone is more gracious to you when you finally slip up, than you were with me. Yersinia pestis So because scientists make mistakes sometimes and the scientist whose work is discussed in the OP has said things contrary to what you already believe, he must be wrong. Got it. What a substantial case. I’m a kid from both worlds The earth was discovered to be round about 2,000 years ago. All you have to do is google it and at least 20 different articles or websites will confirm this. I’m a chemical engineer major, so my schooling has nothing to do with this answer, but I do remember hearing about this in my archaeology class (it doesn’t have anything to do with archaeology, but we were discussing something that had been discovered that had been used in studying the moon, kind of like an ancient telescope, which is how ancient scientist studied the shape of the earth by looking at its shadow on the moon). So, google and the dozens of articles confirming that this was discovered about 2,000 years ago is where I get my sound logic on this topec. @marybethpearson:disqus , you really need to learn to just swallow your pride and let it go. Honestly. I’m a single mom and in school full time, so I know what it is to be sleep deprived, usually staying up til about 2 am studying and then waking up at 5:45 to get ready and get my kid off to school before my full day of incredibly hard classes. But it seems that you need to reacquaint yourself with social behavior….such as admitting you are wrong. Yersinia pestis Yes the Middle Ages or Medieval period happened, for sure. However, scientists of this era, or really anyone with a substantial education at all, knew that the Earth was round, just as had been known hundreds of years before. If you do in fact have a BA in history, let me know what institution granted it so I can recommend that no one ever goes there. TH The processed, deep fried white bread coated with a sugary frosting devoid of any nutritional value (DONUT) doesn’t help either. MaryBeth Pearson I guess single women too would benefit. However, the whole thing is plain ridiculous, and I really don’t care about the “Science” behind it. Yersinia pestis From someone who’s scientifically illiterate, that isn’t surprising. mrm1138 …I really don’t care about the “Science” behind it. Essentially the same thing said by smokers whenever anyone tells them it’s bad for them. Peter Nicholson Lets call a spade a spade..all the posters calling this research whining like to think they are superior and harder working when they support early starts.It’s macho posturing. farah3 Some of us are just natural early risers. The killer for me is working late. I wake without effort at 5am, but am worn out by about 7pm and ready for bed at 9pm. I’ve been like that since I was a teen, at just the point everyone else was struggling to get out of bed at noon. My personal ideal day is about 7-3pm. I’ve hot desked with an evening person for a short period and it was *perfect*. bananaboat Circadian rhythms are certainly variable. But the fact that they are variable, to me, means we should have flexible start times or negotiable start times for a lot of jobs. If there’s no really good reason (like, for instance, if you work regularly with an office in another time zone) to make someone start at 7:30, 8, 9 am, then why force everyone into it? Rosemary Fryth Yes, I’m another early riser. Naturally awake between 5/6am. I work from home and am at my sparkiest first thing when I hear the dawn chorus. I begin to fade by 7pm and am nodding off in front of the telly by 8pm. Laylla I’m by no means an early riser, but in my line of work I have to be, and I’m not sitting in front of a computer during my work day but rather maintaining fish tanks, handling snakes, medicating sick animals. I think I’d be okay if my hours were always the same, but they aren’t. One day I’m working from 8am-4:30 or 5, the next day I’m working from 1pm to 10pm, then back in at 8am the next day. I think if anything messes up your circadian rhythm it would be this. 80sRobot People in charge of companies, governments, schools and institutions do not care — they *want* you to suffer. Denying sleep is one of the most effective ways to keep the populace in line, under control, reducing resistance. Darren Weldon Or you know, you can always… GO TO BED EARLIER if you’re “sleep deprived” bananaboat No, actually, the point of the article is that you cannot. gregoryabutler Why can’t you go to bed earlier? Is somebody forcibly preventing you from going to bed at a reasonable hour? bananaboat Yes. My body. I can get in bed at any time of day – falling asleep is a physiological process over which I have little control. I actually tend to get into bed around 10 or 11 a lot of nights, then lie there for a few hours with my eyes closed but still wide awake. It’s just not how I am wired. I never have been able to go to bed early, even as a little kid. My parents would try like hell to get me in bed by a reasonable time, but I’d be giggling with my sister or lying awake thinking about everything under the sun until 1 am. It’s just my rhythm. Griever The problem is we’ve all been taught that an “early to bed, early to rise”, puritan work ethic is what makes a real man (or woman). That is the crux of anyone arguing that waking up early is right and natural. The truth is, everybody is different and have different rhythms. If your particular rhythm happens to jibe with our imposed industrial schedules, be thankful instead of criticizing those whose doesn’t. gregoryabutler How is it “suffering” to go to work at sunrise and get off work in the early afternoon? You just need to adjust your sleep cycle – go to bed early and wake up early, like your grandparents did mrm1138 Did you even read the article? As Dr. Paul Kelley puts it in an interview, ‘We cannot change our 24-hour rhythms. You cannot learn to get up at a certain time…your liver and your heart have different patterns and you’re asking them to shift two or three hours.” gregoryabutler Actually, you can change your circadian rhythms People who do long distance travel on a regular basis do it All The Time So do autoworkers, steelworkers and oil refinery workers who work rotating shifts (7 – 3 this week, 3 – 11 next week, 11 – 7 the week after next) If you “cannot learn to get up at a certain time”….buy an alarm clock Darren Weldon This is the dumbest piece of drivel I have ever seen. So what did the settlers do prior to the 18th century when they were getting up before the sun even came up to work in the fields? But lets say employers do start work at 10:00. With an hour lunch break, it means they wont leave until 7 o’clock at night. How much do you want to bet workers would start bitching and whining about that? The truth is, you can never satisfy everyone and theres ALWAYS going to be whining and claims of unfairness. DEAL WITH IT! Yersinia pestis This is the dumbest piece of drivel I have ever seen. It’s only “dumb” if you have anything contrary to the health effects mentioned here. Jamie Goodman Shall we go back to riding in horse and buggy, or going to the bathroom in outhouses or chamberpots because that was how it was done in the 18th century? I work 10-6 or even 11-7, and love it. Much better for my brain (and productivity) than forced early morning work, and my employer gets much better work from me. Don’t try to fit everyone into the same mould. bananaboat http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16964783 Also, what did they do? A lot of unhealthy things. Died of diptheria, typhoid, all kinds of nasty shit that was preventable because they didn’t know better. Made children work jobs that often resulted in their maiming or death. Treated women and people of other ethnicities as property. The list goes on. gregoryabutler But they got up at dawn and went to work….like responsible adults do bananaboat If getting up at dawn is the threshold for responsibility, I suppose anyone working third shift is terribly irresponsible. Seriously? gregoryabutler The author is in an academic bubble – he wants to live undergrad hours – wake up at 9, stumble into class at 10, stumble out of class at 4, play video games and smoke weed til 1 AM and then collapse into bed The adult world Does Not Work Like That Mikael Evangale So, what I gather is that the article claims that the sun rises at 10am and everyone else just isn’t going to bed early enough to get adequate sleep. If our sleep cycle really revolves around sunlight and the amount of melatonin in our bodies, then we should be waking up earlier and going to bed earlier, not later. gregoryabutler EXACTLY! http://valentiniak.deviantart.com/ Ekaterinya Vladinakova This is why I pick college classes after 10 or 11 am. I realize those early classes were screwing with my body. Athos Couldn’t disagree more. I was always an early riser and got to the office at 7:30 am. Most productive time until 9 when everyone else came in. Of course I was ready to go home by 5-5:30. Of course the 9 am arrivals would wisecrack,”oh, leaving early?”. But start work at 10 am till when? 7-8 pm. No way. Rita Connolly If you start at 7:30 am you should be off at 3:30 or 4 pm after working eight hours. If starting at 10 am then off at 6 0r 6:30 pm if working eight hour days. If you are working ten hour days, hop you’re paid overtime and/or are working four days per week. Athos I was salaried. People were expected to work way over 40 hours. I agree with you. There were other ways of balancing the equation. Management’s attitude was that if you worked an 8-hour day you didn’t have enough to do. Deirdre A Kingsman Been saying this for years and generally received scorn and disbelief in return. Eventually the rest of the world might catch up; meanwhile we continue to suffer. Saying “That’s just how it is, so man up and deal with it like the rest of us” is not a useful or thinking answer that will lead to constructive change. I strongly agree with most of this, but as a factory worker would like to make clear that we do actually have to think quite a lot in our jobs too – things have moved on from the Victorian mill era. And we often have to start a lot earlier than 9am, so our bodies are probably even more messed up than the average 9 to 5-er. The assumption that the default job is in an office gets a bit wearing. Remember nurses, doctors, police, fire-fighters, zookeepers, cleaners, truckers, drivers, chefs, bar staff, builders etc. Todd Wilson Getting rid of the 8 hour day 40 hour work week would be beneficial as well. I’m all for 4 hour days 20 hour work week. Let’s be honest, who wants to spend the majority of their lives at work? conradg I’m not quite getting how it’s more natural to start work at 10 am, fours hours after the sun has risen. Didn’t we all get up at the crack of dawn in the olden days, and go to sleep at dusk or shortly thereafter? Certainly farmers got up even before dawn to begin working. So how did this change in rhythms occur that make 10 am workdays more natural to us? gregoryabutler Maybe 10 AM is the “natural” waking hour after you’ve been drinking or getting high all night? Jamie Goodman I don’t think he was talking about getting UP at 10am, he is talking about starting the more brain-intensive stuff (work or school) at 10am. I wholeheartedly agree. I can wake up at 7am, but my brain doesn’t really get going until later in the morning, sometimes as late as 11am. bananaboat http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16964783 Griever My family and I, when we are able, like to stay up late and sleep late. Even though our bills are paid and we live quite well and independently, I find myself getting odd looks from people and having to explain myself at times. Why? People act like there is some virtue to being an early-riser. Excuse me, but I only have this one life, and I’d like to live it how I see fit if it doesn’t affect you. If you let them, people will judge every single facet of your life it seems; from who you want to love all the way down to when you want to wake up, everyday. This world would be a better place if people would just live their lives and not worry so much about what someone else is doing. Mike Mack I work night shift and I love the hours Adam Hunsicker Gotta admit I’m amused that I stumbled onto this article at 6:30am on a Sunday (no work today) after having been awake since 5am with no alarm clock. For what it’s worth, in my part of the world sunrise today is at 7:00am and sunset is at 6:59pm… 9-5 would be perfectly centered on the daylight hours today. Playing with the calendar at http://www.sunrisesunset.com/calendar.asp I found that the earliest sunset this year will occur at 5:21pm (early December). On those days sunrise is from 7:00-7:30. Of course these numbers can change based on where you live but for most of us in the United States the take-away is if you want to guarantee you work during the day and are home at night the best 8 hour shift would be approximately 8:30am – 4:30pm. Of course I can’t help but think this is all bullshit because who can really afford to live off of 40 hours a week these days? The ones that could are too busy working 100+ hours to notice gregoryabutler 9 – 5 is perfectly centered on daylight hours where I live too. I don’t know what this guy is crying about. Radek Piskorski So people who live near the Equator should work longer hours? bananaboat 9-5 is centered around daylight hours if you live in your office. If you have to commute to work, like the vast majority of humans, it means you are getting up between 6-8, depending on the length of your morning routine. Sun is not up by 8am in winter in my part of the US. In the summer, I am able to get up much earlier without so much trouble. gregoryabutler And? Still sounds like crying and bellyaching to me – I’m in construction, I start work at 7AM (like millions of other people) bananaboat I don’t understand why you cannot understand that people are not all the same. Some people have different rhythms, it has always been that way. There have always been night people and day people and every variation in between. It is only since industrialization that we’ve been forced to adhere to this arbitrary schedule. It makes sense for construction workers, farmers, etc to get up early – you need to make the most of the day. I totally get that. I am not a construction worker, there is absolutely no reason why I should have to get up at 7AM to show up to a place where no one even speaks to me most of the time (because most of my work is solitary or doesn’t require direct contact with my colleagues), and if they do it’s usually well after 11 am. It’s just a bizarre vestigial practice that I have never understood. http://www.philomedia.nl/ Frank Heuijmans When there was no electric light people used to sleep in two shifts. They went to bed with sundown, woke up around two and did all kind of things for a few hours and went to sleep again for as long it was dark. Maybe they started working around 9 or 10, first getting really awake without rushing things? Why would one want to rush things? Die early? Getting sick? Depressed? Indeed that is what we are all doing. GeneralBou Dam I Love Self-employment!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Elizabeth Menzel Total vindication! NOT a morning person, no matter how I’ve tried. So, I’ve designed my life so that I get to wake up when my body wants me to at least 28 days per month. I meditate, slowly putter about, get ready for the gym or a hike, have a protein shake, and head out. I might run some errands after exercising or may just start my work day. I see most clients starting around 2pm, but sometimes start meetings at 11am. I have a successful career and I feel happy, healthy, and make enough money. I think the important thing here is to honor your circadian rhythm, have satisfying work you love, and do your best to contribute to society while living a happy healthy life. Samantha Atkins An even more prevalent form of torture is spending hours per day in heavy traffic to go to a particular location to do work you can do from anywhere with an internet connection and a laptop. Don’t make me laugh about the magic of team interaction. And forget about the supposed benefits of daily scrum and other management nose counting obedience training exercises. Todd Wilson It’s all about control. bananaboat I think like, a once a week in-person meeting is helpful for a small team to have for creative roles like mine, but any more than that is just wasting time that could be spent getting things done. I have worked remotely many times with pretty much the same if not sometimes better results than when I am physically there with people all the time. When I have started between 9:30-10:00 in the morning I’m a million times more productive and happier. It’s enough to make me want to go freelance. It’s one thing if I’m late to a scheduled meeting, but if I have nothing on the schedule for the day I do not understand why I should be sitting, in a cube where no one is likely to talk to me all day, at 9am sharp. Kenneth Lydall Even a 10am conference call 15 min meeting so everyone can say hey and touch base, then start working would be pretty reasonable. Ludwig Chelala You wake up 8 at with a 10 – 7 shift, shower, get dressed, it’s 8:30. Have breakfast it’s 9:00. Food works up your body, so you need a bit of rest until you get your energy back, using this time for mental exercise, 30 min of reading a book, practicing an instrument, listening to music, meditation etc… it’s 9:30 Leaving you with 30 min to get to work on time(varies) Combine that with a decent workplace environment, production efficiency would significantly increase. Physical and mental health are key to having a better society Angela Steininger Strange hours have to be the burden of some. I am a nurse. Worked night shift for years. It was hard on my health but someone has to watch sick people at night. Law inforcers have the same problem….people dont have off switches. And God bless the all night service station attendant bananaboat I definitely can relate, although I was solving much less critical problems on my third shift (call center work). That shift is just as bad for me as the early shift. Easy to get depressed on that schedule and I was constantly sick. That said, I know a lot of people who thrive on that schedule. The world takes all kinds. Pheonixian Science? The notion is too ridiculous to laugh at! The reason those students’ grades were suffering is because they failed to prioritize their commitment to education over their desire for late night socializing. It’s the lazy, whiny, self – entitled ones who complain about early mornings. If our natural, evolutionary circadian rhythms allowed us to sleep until 10, we would have been extinct millions of years ago, having fallen prey to the lowliest of daylight predators! If you choose to stay up late and sleep late, don’t expect the world to revolve around you, don’t complain that you’re being tortured; make your own way within the world or just admit you’re to lazy to contribute. Jamie Goodman I am going to continue arguing with the notion of “getting up later = lazy.” I can work 15-20 hours in one sitting, starting later in the day and going way into the wee hours of the morning, MUCH longer than most people can. But try as I might, I have never been a morning person, even when I worked an 8-5 job (and I have been a professional for 20 years now). My brain just does not function early in the morning, and my employers get much more work out of me after 10 am. So please, just because people are not like you, do not be judgmental and call us “lazy.” We’re just different. Radek Piskorski LOL Many people in many countries start work at 7am or 7:30. Add to that living in god-forsaken suburbs and bad public transport and it’s not uncommon for people to get up at 5am. #firstworldproblems Jamie Goodman Some may agree, some may disagree, but please, early risers, please don’t call us later risers “lazy” just because we don’t get up when you do. I work just as hard as you, sometimes twice so to “prove” myself, and am much more productive after 10am. Luckily I have had great employers who understand and have given me the flexibility and room to give them back my 110%. So disagree with the opinion of this article, but please don’t call us “lazy.” Jell Ebol Rizan Therefore, you can make an experimental study in Spain. Banks and Government offices start at 9AM while business establishments start at 10AM. Get more smiles from late starters. Seems like this observation is valid. Schools start at 8AM. have to find out what they produce. Blue Collar jobs start at dawn but finish earlier. It’s inevitable. Pheonixian Okay, I agree lazy is the incorrect adjective; nonconformist or undisciplined are more accurate. It really doesn’t matter what time of day our work begins but rather, whether we allow ourselves enough rest, exercise, and recreation between shifts. We can function just as well when starting at 3AM as we can at 9AM or 5 PM, or whenever we choose. It is only your contrary belief that limits you. Deano i start work at 5am… MaryBeth Pearson I am a kid from both worlds, I did admit to being wrong, if you actually read the whole conversation. My point about scientists being failable is still vaild, I just chose a poor example. Honestly people! Don’t you think I would like to lounge in bed until 10? It is simply not possible. It is what it is. Good grief some people are like a dog with a bone! Just let it go! I made my point, it is vaild, and I corrected my error! I WAS WRONG ABOUT SCIENTISTS BELIEVING AT ONE POINT THAT THE EARTH WAS FLAT. OK. Do I need to do further penance, or are all you perfect people satisfied??????? Lisa Hi sensitive people. Productivity and hard work are not the same thing. You can lift heavy things for 8 hours but if you had a forklift available that could have made it a 10 minute endeavor, your boss ain’t proud of your stalwart work ethic. Any job where performance matters is a job where you need to take care of yourself just like you need to maintain a car if you want it to drive you around. No one is bragging at how long they can drive their car without an oil change, why would you brag about how hard you can work under shitty conditions, when you could be hurting your ability to perform when you need it most? Miss mother with the flat-earth bs that keeps posting on here with a serious chip on your shoulder, I am talking to you. You have an incredibly important job of raising a child and you do need a freaking nap or you wouldn’t be so incredibly unpleasant nor would you feel the need to be so immature online. Do your child a favor and get some sleep, touch yourself if you aren’t getting laid, and eat some fruits and veggies before you have a nervous breakdown. You are the parent and you set the standards. Everyone at work may have to follow the office rules but they can also have some standards about how they work, this is why competitive companies cater to the best employees and unions form around certain types of labor. Tl;dr have some self respect and smarts instead of flaming each other. Javier Pic pffff in venezuela te normal start hour is 7 to 8 am…and our salary is 9$ a month, take that and try to survive. Veronica Prosser I’d rather have my 7am start time than have to work later in the evening. Getting off at 4pm is fantastic! TruthSetsUsFree I lo David_G_Young Your alteration of ‘researcher’ from the original news item to ‘scientist’ in your blog has not gone unnoticed. Dr Kelley has an honorary degree from the Open University and even the NDCN won’t elaborate on what it was in. Rachel Guay We’re programmed to go to sleep when it gets dark, and rise with the sun…before “time” existed. I just think people don’t go so bed early enough and sleep well. Morgan Smith But why would I want to start work at 10 am? That means I wouldn’t be home in the evening with my kid. No thanks. Erica Hollis well personally speaking when I worked in an office, I preferred to get there for 8 so I could be home earlier. I almost always waken before 6:30am even on holiday. If I ever worked beyond 6pm I always had to undo all the mistakes I made and redo the work next day as my brain is far more alert in the early morning. Bernd Paysan People are different. And many teenagers are struggling to get out of bed before noon. Performance up 19% when starting at 10? What about when starting at 1pm? Or 6pm? If you figure out that it’s too early, you have next to figure out when it’s too late, too. And maybe, you need school in two shifts, because people are so different. Why not have a morning class, three afternoon and two evening classes? livewire516 Yes we have a circadium rhythm, yes we’re sleep deprived as a society (with all of the health, mood, productivity consequences), and yes, the economy and industry dictate work times with little consideration for the above-mentioned tolls to workers. HOWEVER, it’s dubious to say that the start times are the cause of the sleep deprivation, when the people who research this also know that we’ve been staying up later – often spending that time engaged in multimedia entertainment / the internet (which directly disturbs our circadian rhythm due to bright and blue light, and the stimulating nature of the content. BLS statistics say the mean adult spends about 3.5 hrs a day, either watching the television or using the computer for personal enjoyment. I’m not say “you TV watching slobs should get back to work” rather, I’m saying “if we value our time and health we have to take responsibility for it too and ask if we’re going to wait for a radical change in labor or put down the iPad?” If you were really entrained with the rhythms of nature, you’d likely wake up at sunrise (well before 10am in most parts of the world with modern economies). You’d also likely fall asleep shortly after sunset, now who’s doing that, and who do you want to fault if you’re not? I’m all for challenging our model towards a way that embracing human needs – but this was a terrible argument. I’m entirely for the support of later start times for students, but growing children’s and adolescents’ needs are quite different from adults, if for no other reason that they need more total hours of sleep. Pooua My boss complains if I’m 30 seconds late arriving (at 8 a.m.) or early leaving (at 5 P.M.). It isn’t that we have anything to do at those times; that’s just the times we are supposed to be in the building.
